Jasper, Unati, and Jeremy are the Three Black Halflings, an incredible D&D combination-actual-play-and-advice-and-interview podcast that burst onto the scene last year. We talk about starting a D&D show in the great quarantine year of 2020, their African mythology-inspired Actual Play setting, and if they can convince me to like bards.
The Punchbowl is our interview segment about playing TTRPGs in 2021 and beyond. Catch up on past interviews on our website!
JTP x TBH CROSSOVER
- Listen to the superpower one-shot Eric ran for the Three Black Halflings, “MAXIMUM CARNAGE”! And make sure to check out and subscribe to the podcast.
Live Show!
- A springtime live show set in LTC! May 13th, 8 PM ET (or afterward with a VOD)! Buy your ticket today at jointhepartypod.com/live!
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Cast & Crew
- Dungeon Master & Producer: Eric Silver
- Editor: Julia Schifini
- Multitude: multitude.productions
About Us
Join the Party is a collaborative storytelling and roleplaying podcast, powered by the rules of Dungeons and Dragons. That means a group of friends create a story together, chapter by chapter, that takes us beyond the tabletop to parts unknown. In the first campaign, we explored fantasy adventure, intrigue, magic, and drama. In the newest story, we tackle science, superpowers, a better future, and the responsibility to help others.
Every month, we sit down for the Afterparty, where we break down our game and answer your questions about how to play D&D and other roleplaying games at home. We also have segments at the beginning of each campaign to teach people how to play the game themselves. It’s a party, and you’re invited! Find out more at jointhepartypod.com.
Transcript
Eric: Hello! This is Eric, your DM, and welcome back to the Punchbowl, our interview segment here on Join the Party. Even in the off weeks, I'm thinking about Dungeons and Dragons. Like, what if the foundational texts of fantasy wasn't fascinated with European mythology and religion, but was, instead, inspired by the many cultures and mythologies in Africa? And what would that mean about what Dungeons and Dragons looks like? But I'm also thinking about what it's like to be a player in 2021 and beyond. So, I figured I'd put that to good use and talk to those who are pushing the game forward. I remember introducing the Punchbowl to the Join the Party feed because I wanted to talk shop with other Dungeon and Dragons media creators. It was 2017 and the genre was just emerging. Critical Role was just kind of like a streaming thing that no one really understood. And the Adventure Zone was just getting its sea legs under it. Now, in 2021, the landscape has totally changed. Everyone and their mom has a Dungeon and Dragons podcast. And maybe some people are moving away from D&D and looking for other tabletop RPGs to tell that story. I'd like to point out. This is a good thing, but it also pushes everyone to make themselves stand out. And no one has stood out in 2020 and beyond more than Three Black Halflings. Starting in June 2020, the energy from this podcast is incredibly infectious, whether they're running their actual play stories, The Cub and the Caterpillar, talking to luminaries of the tabletop RPG fields, or breaking down how Wizards of the Coast has messed up yet again. And, now, they're part of the Headgum Network and they just keep rolling on. Their charisma scores are high. They're rolling to hit you right in the hearts. And they're criting and succeeding. I got to talk to them about what it was like starting a Dungeon and Dragons show in 2020, their African mythology inspired actual play setting, and if they can convince me to actually like bards. Also, special alert, this is a crossover extravaganza. I ran a very special one shot for the Three Black Halflings on their RSS feed, which comes out in two days. So, if you're listening to this on Tuesday or Wednesday, subscribe to the Three Black Halflings’ podcast feed and wait a second because it's coming. But, if it is Thursday or later sometime in the future, check out that episode in their RSS feed or the link in the episode description. And, finally, shout out to Jeremy's friend Taylor Lewis who recommended JTP to Jeremy a long, long time ago and was the linchpin to actually making this all happen. And, now, my conversation with Jasper, Unati, and Jeremy, the Three Black Halflings.
Theme Music
Eric: I am overjoyed, so happy, jumping out of my chair and saying, “Hip, hip hooray,” to have the Three Black Halflings with me here. I'm so happy for all of you.
Jasper: Hey.
Eric: And, in order from shortest to tallest, can you all introduce yourselves?
Jasper: Yes.
Jeremy: I, I think I'm the shortest.
Jasper: You are indeed.
Jeremy: My name is Jeremy Cobb, but many people call me many other things. If you want to hear some of those things, come listen to Three Black Halflings because I say a different one every episode.
Jasper: Everything I want to say.
Unati: Yes.
Eric: Get that plug in real early. Perfect.
Jeremy: Yeah, it never stops.
Unati: And I am Luyanda Unati Lewis-Nyawo, but everybody calls me Unati. And I'm 5’6”. So, it's definitely me second.
Jeremy: It’s definitely you.
Jasper: Oh, no. I’m definitely. I'm, I’m taller than 5’6”. I'm almost 5’8”.
Jeremy: Wow.
Jasper: Yeah.
Unati: Well, I'm, I’m one – I'm, I’m 1.67 centimeters. So, you know, I'm 5’6”. So—
Jasper: And my name is Jasper William Cartwright.
Jeremy: I, I don't understand what's happening. I’m – as I – you know, I'm, I’m saying right now. Every time I speak, I'm gonna try and put in a plug for Three Black Halflings.
Jasper: Please don’t.
Jeremy: But, really, if you want to hear more of this, go check out Three Black Halflings.
Jasper: All day long.
Eric: Perfect. I'll cut out like 50 percent of them, anyway.
Jasper, Yes, thank you.
Jeremy: Please do.
Jasper: Please do.
Eric: The thing that we haven't talked about is that Unati is always dunking. So, that's why it seems like she's taller than everyone else.
Jeremy: Ho-ho.
Jasper: Mhmm. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Unati: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jasper: Nothing, nothing.
Eric: Just constantly throwing it down a two handed tomahawk at all times. So, that's why Unati is taller, right?
Jasper: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Unati. Yeah. No, for sure. For sure. That’s definitely it. My knees can absolutely stand up to that.
Jeremy: She's the LeBron James of TBH—
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: —which you could listen to.
Eric: Everyone's been saying that.
Jasper: Yes.
Eric: And I took that personally.
Unati: Wow. Okay.
Jasper: Sorry. Go ahead, Eric.
Eric: No, honestly, this leads really nicely into my first question. Before I ask you about where everything came from and your origin story, I really want to talk about where all of y'all are from. Is that – you three usually all record in, in the UK, right?
Jasper: Usually. Yes.
Jeremy: Usually. Yes. But, recently – here's what happened, folks. Here's what happened. I was – I'm a dual citizen, where I'm a British citizen and an American citizen. And I was in Britain when the second lockdown started. And I thought to myself, “I don't need to do this. I can just leave. And, so, I did. I went to the United States thinking that I would probably come back early January. But then second lockdown became Tier 4—
Jasper: Mhmm.
Jeremy: —which is kind of like baby lockdown.
Jasper: Hmm.
Jeremy: And then Tier 4 became lockdown number three. And it – now, because of all of that, I won’t be going back for, at least, another month or so as of recording this.
Jasper: Yes.
Jeremy: So, that is – so, so far, we've been recording for, like, six months almost, across – with a five-hour gap in time—
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: —because I’m Eastern Standard Time.
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: And then, yeah, me and Unati were both UK based.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: I was born here – over here in the UK.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: And, Unati, you were—
Unati: I was – I was born in Johannesburg at Baragwanath Hospital in South Africa. And I grew up in Port Elizabeth, all zones of Africa.
Eric: Wonderful.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: I'm glad that people now will know what that is.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: Because I've learned about it for the first time as well. Thank you. But I appreciate you saying this because, now, you are – we are so separated across time zones. And the thing that I love the most about your show is the energy all of you keep up. Like, listening to it, I know podcasting so many ways is like you're listening in on a conversation that someone else is having. But how do all of you keep that energy up when you're across five time zones and have to do this remotely over Zoom?
Jeremy: Cocaine.
Jasper: Hell yeah.
Eric. Hell yeah, dog. Hell yeah.
Jasper: That was too quick, Jeremy.
Unati: That was way too quick.
Jasper: That was too quick.
Jeremy: I heard it coming. Great question. It, I had the answer about halfway through the question.
Jasper: I, I do think, in a weird way, Jeremy has kind of answered the question because that – I think, honestly, the secret is that we genuinely do make each other laugh—
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: —like way more than we should. Do you know what I mean? Like, we, we—
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: We're actually not very funny. We just can’t stop laughing—
Jasper: Yeah, exactly. We just find each other very funny, which then convinces our listeners that we are funny because of how much we’re – we’re laughing. They're like, “Oh, wait. They’re laughing. So, they, they—
Unati: They must be funny.
Jeremy: We are our own laugh track.
Jasper: Yeah.
Unati. It’s a ruse.
Eric: Hmm.
Jasper: But I think that's why – I think – I don't know. I'm just speaking for me, but I feel like that's part of the reason that I feel like I've never struggled to get the energy up for, like, one of these. Do you know what I mean?
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Eric: Mhmm.
Jasper: Like, I've always found it, like, even if I'm feeling, like, like, not so great that day or whatever, I'm just – I come in and we start recording. And, like, five minutes in, I'm like, “Yehey. Woohoo! TBH! Yeah.”
Unati: Yeah. No, for sure. It does always feel like we're just hanging out, which, which takes the kind of pressure off. I think, if it was like a very, very serious podcast, I would feel like, “Oh, Lord, I'm drained.”
Jeremy: Yeah, “oh here we go”. Mhmm.
Unati: But, but, most of the time, I just come and I sit. And, sometimes, to Jasper's great annoyance, it doesn't happen anymore. I bring snacks.
Jasper: Yeah, that happened for a while. That happened for a while. We got, like, full, like, crisp, like, chicken wings – all chicken wing audio at one point.
Unati: Hmm. Hmm.
Jasper: And I was having to go through, like, ASMR. And, yeah, it’s down
Unati: But, yeah, I just – I just sit and like laugh and have a good time. So, that's why it's always fun.
Eric: That's incredible. And I think it's funny that you say that, like, you guys don't have a serious podcast because not Serious – capital S Serious, like, you're taking it seriously.
Jasper: Hmm.
Eric: But I think that you end up tackling lots of different things. I mean, when you're doing the AP portion, or you're doing the interview, or you're talking about how Wizards of the Coast has disappointed you this week, I think, it's worthwhile.
Jasper: Today.
Unati: Today.
Eric: Today. Yeah, that you managed to keep that energy up and you make each other laugh. And that's why I love the show. I think that's what makes it truly stand out. But we'll, we’ll get back to that.
Jasper: Thank you. That’s very nice. Appreciate that.
Unati: Thank you very much.
Eric: We will truly get back to that because I really want to know – so, this show started in 2020.
Jasper: Hmm.
Eric: And Dungeons and Dragons shows – actual play shows have changed so much since Join the Party started where we started as right when the Adventure Zone was in the middle of Balance.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Eric: So, I would love to know, how did you come to Dungeons and Dragons and what was it like making a show in 2020?
Jasper: Yeah, it was a strange, old time, I think, 2020 for a lot of people for a multitude of reasons. There was a lot of discourse happening. There was a lot of need for escapism, I think, in 2020 with, with lockdowns, and not being able to see the ones you love, and not being able to connect with them in the same way. And I think we're always trying to find new ways to do that. And, like, I know how reliant I was on podcasts and still am, you know, just because I needed to feel like I was talking to someone else in the day that wasn't just, like, me, or, you know, like, my partner, who I live with, which, who I – who I love more than anything in the world. But, like, there's only so many things you can talk about when you've been locked down in the same flat for a year. Do you know what I mean?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: So, you know – and then I think, out of that, there were so many conversations happening. Jeremy had introduced me to Dungeons and Dragons the year before. And, like most things in my life, I tend to, if I enjoy it, seize it with both hands and then jump on the train and not care where I'm going. I'm just in it like 1,000 percent. And, so, then, you know, me and Jeremy just started – we started talking a lot about Dungeons and Dragons. And I started to try and engage more in the sort of, like, rule side of things and really like – and Jeremy is a great tutor for that. Like, he just – he knows this stuff. He just knows. It's great. And then I just randomly was like, “Do you want to, like, just do this as – do you want to make this a thing? Do you want to, like, actually, just talk about this and maybe people will listen?” And then we, we recorded the first episode, which is still a – we have to find this at some point. Jeremy's fan was blowing directly into his mic the entire episode.
Eric: No!
Jasper: I was using my phone as a mic. And I kept moving my phone around. I put it under a pillow at one point because I forgot that I was using it as a mic for a podcast that I was apparently doing. It was a shambles. Like, it was real bad. And then I was like, “No. No, we've got to try this again.” So, we, we tried it again. And I'd seen a post that Unati had made on, like, Facebook about – you were in the sun doing your extensions, dyeing your extensions—
Unati: I was doing my hair.
Jasper: —and just minding your own damn business.
Unati: I was minding my business. I’m hydrating and moisturized.
Jasper: And then I came in and was like, “I'm just gonna – I'm just gonna take all of your free time. And I’m gonna put it in a show, please.”
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: And, yeah, then we just – we kind of – we got talking and we kind of decided – we kind of settled I feel like on the style of the show. I don't feel like we ever really talked about it.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Jasper: We just sort of had some stuff we wanted to talk about. And then that – very naturally out of that, we kind of got into this groove and realized that we were always gonna be doing it with, like, a smile and a laugh. And that was just our thing.
Unati: Mhmm.
Jasper: And – which was nice. It felt very organic. And then – yeah.
Unati: Yeah. And I think what I really sort of appreciated because Jasper and Jeremy, obviously, brought me on, like, you know, sort of later on. But I think out of 2020 as well with George Floyd making, like, a massive resurgence in – globally really about sort of race relations internationally but also in America. And, and, so, we were looking at this game and what we love to play and also going, “Well, we're also finding unconscious biases and issues—
Jasper: Mhmm.
Unati: —in, in day-to-day life.” But, you know, while the world was kind of going mad, I remember, I think, after that happened, I – there was a point where I sort of woke up and was like, “I cannot wake up angry anymore.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Unati: I can't wake up furious by 8:30 in the morning anymore.” And it was just really nice to find something where I could voice my thoughts and opinions and sort of tackle these difficult issues but from a place of joy because that's valid protest.
Jasper: Hmm.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Unati: From a place of joy, love, and light and just helping people get along a little better. You know what I mean, Jas? Can we stop this now?
Jasper: Yeah, absolutely. So, I guess, yeah, then – and then the name came about. Well, you could tell the story of the name actually, Jeremy, if you want.
Jeremy: Oh, yeah. I started playing D&D. I think it was October 29th or something like that of 2018. And then I introduced it to Jasper the following year. And then Jasper, later that year, wanted to DM a campaign. And he wanted me to be a player in it. And, so, I was like, “Cool. I'm going to make a character.” And I had recently happened upon the ghostwise halfling and had, like – and been looking into the monk. And I was like, “Cool. I want to play a ghostwise halfling monk” and was looking up pictures – like, fan art online for, like, an image of anything to do with like a halfling monk. But, first, it was like black halfling monk. And then it was like halfling monk. Then it was like black Halfling. And I could not find any, like, visual representations, fan art or official, of black halflings just period—
Eric: Mhmm.
Jeremy: —except for – at the time, except for one image of a really obscure halfling subrace from a previous edition that exists on some other plane of existence. And it's like single picture of, like, two black dudes just kind of, like, blurry, black and white just kind of standing there. I don’t – to this day, I don't remember what it is.
Eric; Why was it black and white? That’s so troubling.
Jeremy: Yeah, I don't know. I'm gonna try and find it again.
Jasper: We have to find it. We do have to find it.
Jeremy: I found it again one time. But – so, the idea, I think, Jade, Jasper’s partner, came up with the idea of calling it Two Black Halflings originally. And then, of course, it became Three Black Halflings, but that is where that came from. It’s the, the impossibility, at the time, of being able to find a representation of a black halfling. Thankfully, though, that problem has since been addressed because there are a whole bunch of pictures of black halflings.
Jasper: Including an official – yeah, official material.
Jeremy: Yeah, Explorer’s Guide to Wildemount has a black halfling druid in it. So, that was the first official black halfling that I saw, but I think there have been more since.
Eric: Except for that, like, CCTV photo.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Unati: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy: Like, I’m, I’m, I’ll find this.
Jasper: It’s super obscure. Like—
Jeremy: I've never heard anyone ever mentioned it. And – oh, Ana – Anadian. Nadian? I think it's called the Anadian halfling. Yeah. And it's one black guy. One black guy who, who is – it's from second edition.
Jasper: Wow.
Jeremy: It’s from second edition. They, they are native to the polar regions of Anadia or Nadia, the closest planet to the sun and realm space. They did not exist anywhere in the known crystal spheres. I haven't even heard of the crystal spheres in terms of D&D cosmologies. So, this is obscure. And their skin color is dark.
Jasper: They’re closest to the sun. And that's how – that's how they justify it. That’s it, guys.
Jeremy: But on a polar – on a polar planet.
Unati: To the moon.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah, that totally makes sense. That totally – yeah. You know how that, that definitely all fits together, absolutely—
Jasper: Hmm. Easy.
Eric: —in the world building. Absolutely. I love this. And I think you've already started touching on this a little bit. But what was it like starting a D&D show in the cosmology? You said crystal spheres and, now, I'm saying cosmology. In the crystal spheres of the tabletop RPG content landscape.
Jasper: It was one of the strangest experiences in my life because I remember being like, “Oh, yeah, like, Dimension 20, Critical Role. Yeah. Cool. There’s, like, some great shows out there. Awesome.”
Eric: Mhmm.
Jasper: Let's have a go. And then I remember, like, the day we launched on Twitter, I was like, “Sweet lord, there's a lot of shows out here.” Like, I was like, “Wow. Okay. I need to, like, think,” you know. And I'm, I’m glad I didn't know the extent to it before because I think I might have been a bit like, “Nah, no one will probably listen to it.” So, you what I mean? I felt like it would have deterred me from actually kind of thinking or, or thinking the idea was, like, valid at least. But, yeah, it was a, a strange experience and I think a, a lovely one because the community has been so welcoming and so embracing of us and our idea and what we – what we do. And we couldn't – we literally couldn't be having- experiencing the success we're now having if it wasn't for that, like, initial reaction to us and to our show.
Eric: Mhmm.
Jasper: So, it's been a very wild journey and one that I'm – would, like – definitely, it’s, like, still on. I feel like it hasn't sort of slowed down in nearly a year. It's like a snowball of starting a show. We've met some, yeah, really incredible and wonderful people along the way, which, it feels weird that I don't know them now.
Eric: Yeah.
Jasper: Like, that's probably a weird thing because I've met so many people via podcasts and been on the shows and they've been on our shows. And we've talked a bunch, but, like, never met them because, you know, pandemics and we live on the other side of the planet, you know.
Unati: Let’s hang out.
Eric: Right. Yeah.
Jasper: So, yeah.
Eric: Yeah. Jasper is now taking off a jacket that says Headgum on it.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: And, you know, a hat that says Headgum on it.
Jasper: I thank them for the merch.
Jeremy: Jake Hurwitz is hanging it up for him and he’s bowed and said “Thank you, sir”.
Jasper: Yeah, me and Jake moved in together. So—
Jeremy: I feel like what you mean is you, you now own a house that you allow Jake Hurwitz to live in.
Jasper: Yes.
Jeremy: And he is your personal manservant. Yes.
Jasper: TBH really took off, guys. Like—
Jeremy: Really took off.
Unati: Really.
Jasper: Headgum’s indebted, indebted to us now.
Jeremy: It's gonna be Halfgum soon.
Eric: Nice. Nice. Three Black Half, Halfgums. That would be perfect.
Jasper: Yes.
Unati: Black Halfgums.
Jasper: That’s a different fanart right there. Halfgums.
Jeremy: I don’t even know what a Halfgum is.
Unati: No.
Jasper: You know what? I don't want to. I don’t really do.
Unati: I don’t want to find out.
Eric: No, absolutely not. So, let me quickly pivot by saying a different question. So, the thing that what I – an interesting thing that you do in your show, sometimes, you have an interview or you're talking about a particular issue, but you also have the actual play game, the Cub & the Caterpillar, going on at the same time. And I really love that you are all using The Wagadu Chronicles 5E setting. Can you tell everyone what Wagadu is and why you ended up choosing that as your AP setting?
Jasper: Mhmm.
Jeremy: Oh, yeah, this was one that I originally had found back in 2019 actually, a little bit before Jasper. Like, a couple months, I think, before Jasper started his own game, I had wanted to run a game in an Africa-based setting because I was like, “Hey, wait a minute. All this stuff is European.” And then I was like, “It’s not like every—
Jasper: What? What?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Eric's like, “Huh? No?”
Unati: Hey.
Jasper: Everyone here’s white. Wait the minute.
Unati: Hey! That’s not fair!
Jeremy: So, I was like, “Why can't we put it in, like, an African setting?” And, so, I was – I started looking up to see if there was any officially released info about Africa settings. And the one that had been released was very controversial because it had, like, a lot of weird cannibalism stuff. And I was like, “So, maybe not that one.” And, so, I kept looking and then I saw info about the Wagadu Chronicles.
Eric: Oh, yeah. That was the one that had, like, dinosaurs and stuff in it.
Jeremy: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: And, like, white – and, like, white people doing African voices on the podcast that were affiliated with it.
Jeremy: I didn't know that.
Eric: Released by Wizards of the Coast?
Jasper: Oh, boy.
Unati: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Jasper: We've got our next topic for our show, guys. So, if you want to—
Unati: Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Jeremy: It was – so, then I found this Wagadu Chronicles. It didn't have any, like, info other than that it was, like, an upcoming setting. And I was like, “Oh, I wish it was – it come now so that I could use it.” But it, I kept it kind of in the back burner. And that, that campaign kind of went nowhere. But, when we started this show and we're looking for, like, different topics, I was like, “Wait a minute. This could be interesting.” Looked at backup. It turns out they've made progress and they were really moving forward. So, we ended up contacting Twin Drums, the company that is making the game. And we got to interview Allan Cudicio, the leader of Twin Drums, on our show. And we were like, “Yo!” I think – I think, after that interview and after, especially, Jasper and Unati had seen the stuff that was planned for Wagadu—
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: Hmm.
Jeremy: —they, they got as excited as, as I had previously been about the possibility. And they were like, “We got to run the game.” And, so, we ran a game, which turned into a campaign as sometimes occurs.
Jasper: Hmm. Yeah.
Jeremy: And, so – and, and then, as we continue doing stuff with it, Twin drums were like, “Hey, you, guys, were the first people to publicly run this game.
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: How about we make a little partnership?” And then we became the official podcast of the Wagadu setting – the official actual-play podcast.
Jasper: Hmm.
Eric: Incredible.
Jasper: It’s just very cool. Like, it's lore now.
Unati: Right.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: It's gonna be—
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: —included in the game.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: Like the history.
Eric: Oh, wow.
Jasper: Yeah. So, basically, the game itself – the video game itself is setting the seventh era, I believe.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: They’ve – they've already said this is the seventh era. And I'll get – and our actual play is gonna be – is set in the fourth era. So, they're including, like, elements that we play through as, like, backstory and lore for, for the game, which is—
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: And I mean it feels wild.
Unati: Wild.
Jasper: Like, why, why? Why have you given us such—
Jeremy: It’s also gonna be like a video game. There's also gonna be an MMO—
Jasper: Yeah.
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: —RPG. And, as, as I understand it, the protagonists of our campaign will potentially, at least, exist in the lore of the game as past ancestors. So, we'll see exactly how that manifests. But it's very exciting. And I, I realized that I never actually – I've just been talking very generally about it being an African-based setting. But I should specify that the—
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: —the general premise is what if J. R. R. Tolkien had been African instead of European. I assume most people know this, but, if you don't, Lord of the Rings is – basically, the, the structure of Lord of the Rings is due to J. R. R. Tolkien's fascination with European mythology. And, so, he drew from all over the place to create this really interesting mishmash of, like – of these different elements from all over the continent. So, what if there was an African J. R. R. Tolkien who had done exactly the same thing and created an Africa-based setting drawing from a lot of different cultures in Africa? And, so, the, the idea is, like, Wagadu is a separate plane. There’s, there's, like, an upper realms that – and, at some point, people fall from those upper realms to Wagadu. It's not clear how. It's not clear why. But, now that you're in Wagadu, you're stuck there. And Wagadu is this magical place. It's very similar to the actual continent of Africa in terms of the, the landscapes and different biomes that you can encounter and a lot of the creatures. But it's like its own self-contained place. You don't have memories. Like, you, you lose your memories of when you were on the – when you were in the upper realms. And you try to regain those memories and regain – reclaim some sense of your identity. Meanwhile, people will be affiliated with various lineages because they have lineages instead of races. Everybody's black and everybody's human, but all of those humans will have very different powers depending on what lineage. And they can look very different. So, they're human but, like, there's elf people, essentially. They have pointy ears. And they have – they live in forests and have defined features. And they’re called the Emere. You have – they may not Genasi, but the Asiman who are drawn from, like, the – there are similarly four elements. Yeah, the Lionbloods, which is Ongenaga – excuse me. Unati’s character, Ongenagama, who is basically, like, people who draw power from the big cats in Africa.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Eric: Hell yeah.
Jeremy: And then you have the Daa'ima, who, which is—
Jasper: Wooh. Represent.
Jeremy: —Jasper's character Mooti, who are basically moth people who are obsessed with the moon and also death.
Eric: Nice. Same.
Jeremy: And then, you know, there are more and more lineages. And it's a really – and each of these have different – it's – basically, they function like D&D races.
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: Although, I think, there's a mechanic whereby you can actually change lineage in Wagadu. Whereas, you can't be – you usually have to jump through quite a lot of hoops to change race in D&D.
Eric: Sure.
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, like, you usually have to die. But it's, it's a really, really cool setting. There's, it's, it's – probably the closest approximation in mainstream D&D would be the Feywild in there—
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: —it really plays by its own set of rules.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Jeremy: There's, there are spirits there that you encounter; sometimes benevolent, sometimes not so benevolent. You can also meet ancestors, which are, like, past people who have lived in Wagadu and whose spirits now linger in, like, physical form and still have powers. But one interesting thing is, in contrast to D&D’s alignment system, which is really a Judeo – like, as much as D&D may be drawn from a lot of “Pagan religions,” the crux of it is very Judeo-Christian, especially in the morality aspect of it. Whereas, Wagadu kind of steers around that. And, instead of there being, like, clearly delineated good, clearly delineated evil, everything is a lot more gray in Wagadu.
Jasper: Hmm. Yeah.
Jeremy: It’s running pretty much off of a different moral system. It's a really cool setting. There's a free – if you go to the Twin Drum’s website, there's a free PDF that you can get called the – it has, like, a bunch of information about the setting. Plus, it's got a little pre-written adventure that you can run. It's called The Oath and The Child. Actually, I think, it's called The Child and The Oath. I always forget it.
Jasper: The Child and The Oath.
Jeremy: It’s The Child and The Oath.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: But, yeah, go check it out. It's a really, really cool setting.
Jasper: It’s awesome.
Eric: Yeah, I have picked up the free PDF and I was reading through them. And I'm like, “This is tight as hell.”
Jasper: Hmm.
Jeremy: The art’s insane.
Eric: It's also really interesting knowing that this is being made now because it also kind of tries to work within the problems that I think Dungeons and Dragons have, which is, like, lineage instead of race. Like, that makes a lot more sense. It's like something that is inside of you—
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Eric: —that you are – you are a part of a family lineage or, like, ethereal lineage. But it's not race.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: And we're not using the word race in describing pluses and minuses to said thing.
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: Yes.
Eric: So, it's like it’s also in conversation with the game already. I think it's really funny that you said African J. R. R. Tolkien because of how much of Dungeons and Dragons is directly from J. R. R. Tolkien.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: Like, how the Tolkien estate had to tell TSR originally to stop calling halflings hobbits—
Jeremy: Yeah.
Eric: —and all that other stuff.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: And, like, it's literally ripped from it and how so much of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit is just from Tolkien's perspective just being, like, a Christian, white, English dude who served in World War I and was pulling all that stuff together.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: Because, like, it's funny when you say, like, alignment is pulled from Judeo-Christian values. I'm like, “Nah, man, it's just Christians.”
Jasper: I think Christians call it Judeo-Christian. I don't think the Judeo part of that really, really translates to the same equation.
Eric: Yes.
Jasper: I think Christians like to say that.
Eric: Yeah. No, I just – I think it's beautiful also because knowing that dwarfs – this is something I've spent a lot of time looking into. Dwarves are explicitly coded as Jews—
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Eric: —because then that's how Tolkien—
Unati: Mhmm.
Eric: Like, Tolkien said that.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Eric: Like, that's not reading into it. It's like, “No, these are Jews. These are some – these are some stubborn folks that I knew in the war and, like, that's valid as that.” So, like, knowing that, like, the Wagadu is, if there was an African J. R. R. Tolkien and then whatever happened with Dungeons and Dragons then was because of his book, or their book, or her book, it would be as tight as hell to me. I find that so, so interesting. What other African mythology or African structure is in there? And have you started touching on that in your AP? I, I'm so interested in it. And I want to know, like, how intentional I feel, like, you guys are doing with this? And what are some things that surprise you in the Wagadu setting that you're really happy exists?
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: I am very enamored with encountering a setting that offers me the relationship with nature that exists in the setting, the relationship with spirits along with an understanding of ancestors, and then the ability to communicate in that way. I think – I think that – to piggyback off Jeremy's point, I think that a lot of Judeo-Christian values have seeped into D&D. And what I find really interesting is that are being South African and having – because I, I immediately decided to play a Lionblood, also known as Izingonyama, because I am Zulu and Hausa.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Unati: Like, that is – that's where I'm from. That's my landscape. I understand that completely. So, it was quite interesting to then encounter a setting – and I think that Jeremy handled it really beautifully – where a lot of what my mother and grandmother would have passed down to me in terms of what a sort of Eurocentric lens would title as ancestral worship. Whereas, it's just our old religions that have been stripped from us because of colonialism—
Jasper: Yeah.
Unati: —and a rewriting of history and a rewriting of cultural globally. I found that really wonderful to actually engage in a world where I was being pushed to explore these ideas even, you know, just at a table, but in a way that kind of dovetailed really quite, like, beautifully with, like, my own, like, personal experience of trying to understand that part of my religion and that part of my identity that has been obliterated due to nonsensicalities. But it was – it’s just really beautiful on a day-to-day basis to encounter that because then, like, my D&D – my sort of straight D&D characters.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Unati: I'm using air quotes. I find that – although I find the alignment really problematic, I find that I will always somehow begin, begin to fall into tropes in terms of playing them. And, playing in Wagadu, I've always been up ended and surprised by how flexible my character automatically becomes—
Jeremy: Mhmm. Mhmm.
Unati: —purely because the world kind of demands it or, or, invariably, forces you into, like, making a new decision. And, now, because you are faced with something so much greater than yourself or faced with something that you just don't understand because you don't know how you got here.
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: True.
Jasper: Absolutely. I think, to piggyback off of that, like, for me as someone who identifies – you know, I’m mixed race. My, my mom is white, British and my dad is black, Zimbabwean. And, for me to like – you know, the last year has been a whole process of me really kind of contacting that part of myself and really being okay identifying as, like, a black man. And, you know, that was a – that was a big part of creating the show for me. It was like me finally feeling comfortable to talk about the fact that I don't identify as white even though, like, that's, I guess, I would I perceived myself for a long time. And, so, then Wagadu is absolutely like a release for me to engage with the – with material and with culture that I just haven't for so long because I grew up in a very white kind of a very – actually very white, Christian community sort of thing. And it was something that just wasn't taught and not in a malicious way. But it just wasn't ever part of the syllabus. So, you know – and, so, even just to, to play a game where I can fully invest and I can live in this fantasy world that is filled with different colors, different smells, different people, different kinds of people, it's, it’s incredible. Like, I, I find myself always getting quite emotional when we play Wagadu and just – and, and, and being so overly excited all the when we do it, much to the detriment of my character, Mooti, who's like – I feel like, you know, if he was – if I was to play him properly, like, all the time, I would not get into half the shenanigans that I do. But I'm like, “We're in, like, this amazing location and I want to do all this, this, and this.” And I can't help myself. Yeah. And it's just – it's just a – it's a gorgeous thing. And, you know, Jeremy's unbelievable storyteller in the way that he weaves this – just, like, the locations, the characters, and he kind of weaves it all together. And it's very empowering, I think. Very empowering to, to be able to contact to that kind of – that kind of work. And I think that the same would go for anyone, I think, that got to play in Wagadu. I think that you would—
Eric: Yeah.
Jasper: Even if you didn't have a direct connection.
Unati: Hmm.
Jasper: I think that, even as a white person or even a PoC from a different culture, I think, that you would—
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Just being able to live in that culture, in someone else’s culture and experience it, I think is a really enjoyable thing. And, to be able to do it without feeling like, “Oh, am I – should I be here? Should I be allowed? Like, is that okay?” But, actually, it's, it's an all-black setting. Do you know what I mean? You're much in the same way that D&D is preeminently an all-white setting. It’s exactly the same.
Jeremy: Yes, exactly.
Jasper: And, so, therefore, there's no need to draw attention to it. There's no need to make a big deal out of the fact that you're black. You're just – you’re just are as you are. You know, like—
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: It was something that I’ve really battled with the first few sessions. I was like, “Should I use an African accent? Or should I use, like, my accent?” And Jeremy – and then I, I really enjoyed that Mooti sounds like me.
Unati: Hmm.
Jasper: But he has this beautiful, like, dark skin moth man with, like, purple friggin’ wings. Like, it's so dope, you know.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: When I see, like, art and stuff, I'm like that probably is one of the bigger things as well. Like, the artwork is, like—
Unati: My favorite. Shout out Tank Man. Shout out Tank Man.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah.
Unati: Tank Man. Tank Man.
Jasper: Tank made some pieces, you know.
Unati: Shout out all of the – everybody, but shout out Tank.
Jasper: Yeah.
Unati: I'm, I’m literally getting that thing framed that giant Blood Red Lionblood. Like, just getting that framed.
Jasper: It’s just unbelievable. It’s unbelievable.
Jeremy: I mean the fan art has been, like, legit unreal, I have to say.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Unati: Unreal.
Jeremy: People bring them.
Jasper: Yeah, absolutely.
Eric: That's the secret reason why people start podcasts. It’s the fan art.
Jeremy: It’s a thing.
Eric: It’s the real secret.
Unati: Yeah, I just want to decorate my home. And—
Jeremy: Yeah, even, even listening to the podcast is, like, an excuse just to get to understand where the arts coming from. Like, why does – why does Mooti have wings in this one? Oh, yeah, I got to listen to that.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah, I got to listen to the show. I got to listen to the show.
Eric: Jasper, something you, you said was – definitely spoke to me on a different level here. Because I've been thinking about a lot of this stuff as a – as a Jewish person. It’s, like, knowing that fantasy can be from a different locus point and then going out from there is really important.
Jasper: Mhmm.
Eric: And I just thank you for talking so much about Wagadu. I think it's incredible. And I want people to download it, buy it, play the MMO, all that stuff.
Jasper: Yes.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: Yes, please do.
Eric: So, I 100 percent feel you on that.
Midroll Music
Eric: Hey, it's Eric again. This is just a little midroll. It's a mini midroll. So, let me just list some little stuff that I like. I like little dogs. I like little shirts that babies wear. I like little movies, not, like, short movies, but, like, movies that are tight 90. It's a little one. Welcome to the Midroll. Remember, get your tickets for our live show, May 13th at 8:00 PM Eastern. Your ticket also comes with a VOD copy of the show. So, you can watch it afterwards, or you're rewatching it, or you couldn't make the show, still get these tickets. This is gonna be really fun. It's another LTC one shot. And I do some fun superhero stuff. You're not gonna want to miss it. Also, we're announcing some new merch that you're gonna be very stoked on. And we've worked very, very hard on it. We think you're really gonna love it. Buy your ticket right now, jointhepartypod.com/live. That's May 13th 8:00 PM or afterwards with that VOD. But buy your ticket now at jointhepartypod.com/live. I have finally evaded the bone witch by doing an ad in Midroll that was unexpected. So, this podcast is just sponsored by BetterHelp, a secure online counseling service. They connect you with licensed counselors through their secure app, letting you message with your therapist, and schedule live phone or video sessions. You can also message your counselor between sessions if you're worried about something or think of a topic that you want to cover in your next call. BetterHelp wants you to find the best therapeutic match possible. So, they make it easy, and simple, and free for that matter to find someone who matches stuff for you. The hardest thing about therapy is finding someone who actually vibes with you and BetterHelp makes this entirely possible. I know we joke a lot about the bone witch here. We have a lot of fun here today as I turned my chair backwards. But BetterHelp is making it easier for you to find the therapeutic stuff you need. And you don't need to, like, go into an office now. We've kind of, like, acclimated to talking to someone about your feelings digitally. Not that you shouldn't do that in person if that's something that you can really connect to. But, like, finding randomly wherever, reaching out into the ether, even rolling bones to try to figure out and find a therapist is really difficult. But BetterHelp just wants to make this easier for you. Once more, this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. And Join the Party listeners get 10 percent off your first month at betterhelp.com/jointheparty. That is betterH-E-L-P.com/jointheparty for 10 percent off your first month. This episode is sponsored by NordVPN. Listen, in the real world, not in the fictional, super-powered world that Join the Party is set, people hack things all the time. That's why we keep getting emails that say like, “Oh, sorry, I gave your login to a hacker by accident because – I don't know.” “And who are you?” “I'm your bank. Is that bad? Maybe – is that bad?” You need a VPN. And a VPN stands for a virtual private network, a service that protects your internet connection and privacy online. And we can get that with NordVPN, which helps you protect and anonymize your data. They give you a fast connection with no data logging and double data encryption for increased anonymity. It's also great to use while traveling or in public places on WiFi networks that aren't yours like airports and coffee shops, because that's where the hackers get in. Because, if I was a villain trying to steal data, I would use a public park WiFi network. People are looking at their credit card stuff all the time while they're outside. They love it. And that's how I get your data if I was a villain like the hacker who can type really fast. That's a superpower. And, in any case you have any issues, there’s 24-hour live customer service support via email or live chat. Protect your data from marauding super villains like the hacker today. Go to nordvpn.com/jointheparty or use coupon code JointheParty at checkout to get a two-year plan plus one additional month with a huge discount. That is Nord, N-O-R-Dvpn.com/jointheparty. And, now, back to the Punchbowl.
Theme Music
Eric: I had a whole question about talking about all the chicanery that Wizards of the Coast has been doing, but I don't – let's talk – let's – you know—
Jasper: Let’s, let’s, let’s, lets – Wagadu would be the thing. You know, right, that's nice. Let's linger-.
Eric: Exactly!
Jasper: Let’s focus on the positive.
Eric: Yeah, I—
Jasper: Do you want to do that?
Eric: I like the stuff that you guys are talking instead.
Jasper: Do you me—
Unita: Do you want to choose violence? It’s Friday.
Jeremy: We all – we all like Tasha’s. We all like – it's about time that they introduced these as official rules that you can change this stuff.
Jasper: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: Great.
Eric: Even, even if the rule is – I don't know – do it at your own table, at least, someone said something.
Jeremy: Yes.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: I don't know. Not my fucking problem. I guess that's – I guess that's something. Yeah. So, good. After we're done recording, we'll just go off for another hour.
Jasper: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Unati: Yeah, I will choose violence.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric: Right. Well, we'll choose violence off mic.
Jasper: Yeah.
Eric: But I, I do I have something that I do think you three do need to help me with. I have a notorious streak, as a – as a dungeon master and as a D&D player, of not liking the Bard class. And we can get into it, but I know that you have been – you all have been doing a, like, class deep dive on the show as well. Y'all do so much stuff on that on – that one RSS feed. I love it. I mean you've done rogues and I'm like, “Yeah, love sneaky people.” But, bards, I just cannot. I cannot get my head around. And I intentionally didn't listen to that episode so that you could all help me maybe like the bard.
Unati: Hmm.
Jasper: Uh-huh. what's your – what's your – what's your – what are your primary objections to the class?
Jeremy: Yes.
Eric: I think it's actually not the mechanics of it. I actually think that Bardic Inspiration is one of the best mechanics in Dungeons and Dragons because it, like, facilitates teamwork. And, like, sometimes, you need support other than just being the cleric or being the healer. And I think that that's really incredible. This was really cemented for me when I was first starting Dungeons and Dragons and I'm like, “I, wow. I can't believe that there's this” – or tabletop RPGs in general and I'm like, “There's a game that facilitates oral storytelling. And we're all doing it together. And I love it. And we're all using our creative minds and imaginations. And I love it.” And then I'm like, why – but then someone else needs to be, like, my superpower is creativity? It's, it's music? It's like, we're already doing a creative thing together. Why do I need to say like, “No, I have a magic guitar, guys. I need everyone to know I have a magic guitar.” And I'm like who is the person that goes into a game whose like, “No. No, I'm the most creative. My creativity is magic.”
Unati: You know what? You hit the nail on the head there for me, Eric. I think you just got it. They converted me. So, don't worry. They’re coming for you, too.
Jeremy: I think – I think the answer is actors.
Eric: Yeah, right.
Jeremy: Like, absolutely. Yeah, I think-
Jasper: Us, three assholes.
Jeremy: Here's what I would say. First of all, I'm gonna go ahead and say I don't think most people think of the game in terms of collaborative storytelling, at least, not consciously.
Jasper: True. Yeah.
Jeremy: Maybe unconsciously they think that.
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: But I think most people just want to play a cool character, number one. Number two, I think that the idea of someone – first of all, I think this is a common thing, but I think it's – people have very reductive ideas about certain classes. And bard is one of the most common.
Jasper: Yeah.
Jeremy: People have a very reductive idea that bards have to be musical in some way.
Jasper: Sexy bard.
Jeremy: Or sexy or sexual.
Eric; Yeah.
Jeremy: Really, the crux of the class is similar to all of the other spellcasting classes, where it gets its magic from. Sorcerers, its innate. Wizards get it from study, Druids get it from their connection to nature. Clerics get it from their connection to a deity. Artificers get it – well, they're not primary at spellcasting, but they get it from their connection to science and invention. Bards get it from their connection to stories and art. It is expression. It is an expression of their connection to art. That can manifest itself in any way, not just musically. It can be your connection to poetry. It can be your connection to telling stories. There's the College of eloquence, where speech itself is an art. There's the College of Creation, where fashioning and creating things is an art. Like, it's—
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: —it's extremely varied. And you don't need to play it in that way. And, the idea that one person is more creative, well, no, it's just that this person is drawing magic from their creativity. I don't know if you've listened to the episode that we – where I talked about my boy who's just – he's basically – I wanted to make Gandalf as a D&D character.
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: Vandalin the Bronze, who is a valor bard because they – Gandalf may be described as a wizard, but, functionally, he's actually closer to a bard. He doesn't cast a whole lot of spells. He mostly hits people with swords and his real power lies in his words, how he is able to manipulate and influence those around him. And Vandalin the Bronze gets his magic from his own delusion because he, himself, is not actually a wizard. He thinks he's a wizard, but he's not. He's basically Don Quixote, who believes in himself so strongly that he ends up becoming essentially a knight and, except, in this case, a wizard. And I think, like, that's a very interesting take on it. There's also– like, I, to me, that doesn't mean that he's any more creative than any other member of the party. It just means that it's just a function of where his magic comes from. And he has a certain set of skills. So – and, to end my pitch, check out not only our bard episode, number one, but also the Curse of Strahd, little mini to—
Unati: Oh, yeah.
Jeremy: —middle two shot that we did, where I play a bard whose power seems to come primarily from just enjoying songs and playing them on my iPod and then knowing a bunch of stuff.
Jasper: Yep. Yep. And it works.
Jeremy: And we absolutely stomped.
Jasper: Yeah, we do. Yeah, we do.
Unati: Yeah, they did. They, they—
Jasper: I played a warlock in that one. Oh, no. Yeah, I was a warlock. Yeah. It was, “Oh, boy.”
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Yeah, I will just, like, add in as well that, mechanically, some of the subclasses are, like, so broken that you can't not have fun whilst you play them.
Eric: I 100 percent agree with that. Like, once you start moving towards like – I think valor is incredible.
Jasper: Yeah.
Eric; And I think that, that whispers is also incredible.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Eric: But, like, I – it's more the issue I have on, on its face. It's like, when they were coming up with Dungeons and Dragons, they're like, “All right. We're gonna have fighter. We're gonna have barbarian because they're super – they're super mad. And they're gonna have magic. And there's gonna be the thing but, like, ‘No, no, no, this one guy, he’s—
Jasper: The minstrel.
Unati: The minstrel. Yeah.
Jeremy: You, guys, it’s the – it’s the – it's the artists
Unati: It’s probably – yeah, it’s probably a musician. Yeah.
Jasper: The court jesters. Yeah.
Jeremy: You’re talking Europe.
Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy: Like, so much of European culture is art based.
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: Yeah.
Jeremy: You have the painting.
Unati: It’s – yeah.
Jeremy: You have the singing. You have the, the, the court jester. Like, oh, my goodness.
Unati: It’s, it’s, it's the whole thing. Like, it's like traveling theater. Like, the storyteller would come around to the village, bring his loot around downtown.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah.
Unati: But he would bring his loot around and he's—
Jeremy: Who was the Pied Piper if not a bard?
Unati: Yeah, exactly. They start, like, jamming out. People will give him some money. He would go off and hang out by the bar, jam up some more, and then move on to the next town.
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: Like, it's, it's part of the culture. They have absolutely converted me though. I will absolutely be playing bard because they look like loads of fun.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah. What do you – what do you—
Eric: Okay.
Jeremy: —think, Eric? Is it – what – does that – does that address some of your concerns at all?
Jasper: Did we move the needle at all? Or—
Eric: I – so, the thing is, when I talk to people, like, Dungeons and Dragons professionals or creative people, I'm like, “Yeah. No, I totally get it. This is how it's functionally really well put into practice. And, like, when I watch other people do it, even with, like, someone like Big Faeth in Dimension 20—
Unati: Yeah.
Eric: —who was like, “I am a charismatic person. I'm a musician. Like, this is who I am.” Like, I kind of get it. I just – like, the existence of it within a storytelling game where someone had – gets their power from art really just like, “Why is this?” I, I just don't understand necessarily why it's there. It's like, no, someone needs to be like, “Nah, I got art powers, guys.” So, I, I respect it.
Unati: You know what? You know what?
Eric: I totally respect it when people actually do it.
Unati: Eric, let’s just leave it with you. You are absolutely correct. Two plus two equals seven.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah.
Unati: You're absolutely correct.
Eric: For all of you being actors, I feel like this is like in the Golden Globes or the BAFTA. It’s when people are like, “Movies are magic.” And I'm like, “Oh, we know. We already all go to the movies. No.”
Jeremy: Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Yeah, I think from a different perspective if you were in the arts. I don't know if you are in the arts. But—
Eric: As a professional podcast writer and all of that stuff, I totally am. I'm like, “Yeah, man, writing, books, literature, it’s magic.”
Jasper: Eric, just live with your superpower, man.
Jeremy: Yes.
Jasper: It’s okay. You can admit it. You have superpower.
Jeremy: You realize you, you, in real life, like, probably you’re a bard.
Jasper: You’re a bard, Eric. You’re a bard. You’re a bard.
Unati: Eric, you’re a bard.
Eric: I don't want to tell anyone that that I have super – like, “Guys, my superpower is my writing. You got to read my short story.”
Unati: It really is though.
Jasper: You just got to admit it.
Jeremy: It is.
Jasper: You just got to admit it, Eric.
Unati: Embrace it.
Jasper: Like, the minute you do it, it's so much easier. Just let go, dude.
Unati: Just let go.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Just let go. You're fine.
Jeremy: Just accept.
Unati: Trust yourself.
Eric: Oh, no.
Jasper: Look, we’ll – we’ll hold your hand. Okay. Come on. Take the step.
Unati: We’ve got you. We’ve got you. We’ve got you.
Jasper: Say it, I have superpowers.
Unati: Superpowers.
Eric: I am a bard. No!
Jasper: Yes!
Unati: Yes!
Eric: No!
Jeremy: Now, we have to pick a subclass.
Jasper: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy: I was thinking – I was thinking maybe either Eloquence or maybe, maybe Lore. Probably, Lore. I'm feeling a lot of lore. What are you thinking? What are you—
Eric: This has really turned around on me and I wasn't prepared for this.
Jasper: When, when you come and play a one shot with us, at some point, you will play a bard and you're going to have the best time to play ever.
Jeremy: We will force you to play a bard.
Jasper: We’re gonna force you to—
Jeremy: Play a bard.
Jasper: We’re gonna – it’d be like, “Oh, Eric, did we not tell you this is an old bard one shot. Ah, so sorry, man. I just – I thought we said that in the email. So sorry. You okay just quickly reskin that fighter you've made?”
Jeremy: It’s gonna be called World of Bards. Everyone here is a bard. Every single person.
Unati: Yes, every single person.
Jeremy: See that squirrel, that's a bard. That squirrel is a bard.
Unati: Oh, wow. That would be so nice.
Jasper: Te-le-le-le-le-le-ling.
Jeremy: And a squirrel.
Eric: I should have seen this one coming. This one's on me.
Jasper: Yeah.
Eric: I'll just – I'll take the L and move on. And I would – I definitely want you all to just give me one last thing here. I think, what we always try to encourage in Join the Party is that new players are the best players. When you come in without any sort of preconceived notion about what Dungeons and Dragons is, you're, you're gonna have a good time. But I think that people do get intimidated by how big the character sheet is and all that stuff.
Jasper: Hmm.
Eric: So, do all of you have little pieces of advice for you to give to new players to have the best time possible?
Unati: Oh, yeah. Much like I do in all walks of my life, wing it for a bit. No, I'm kidding. How, how do you eat an elephant? Piece by piece.
Jeremy: Mhmm. Yeah.
Unati: Jeremy, like, please don't eat elephants. It's really not cool. But it's just – it's an old proverb. Like, how do you eat an elephant? Bit by bit, you know. And I think that it is exciting to maybe, like, go in gung-ho and be like, “Oh, I want to be level 15.” But just start at level three, have some fun, and see how squishy you are.
Jasper: Hmm.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Unati: Because, when you get all the cool bits, it's so much more fun and you actively want to use them.
Jasper: Hmm. Hmm.
Jeremy: Yeah. Or level one really—
Unati: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeremy: —if you've never played TTRPG.
Unati: Like, level one, yeah, even. And, also, just – it's not that serious guys. It's a game. It’s a pandemic. Just – it's okay. It's okay. It's fine.
Jeremy: I think that my piece of advice would be, basically, do what you want to do. Like, make sure you've communicated with the dungeon master ahead of time so that you guys are all on the same page. But then just, like, do the stuff you want to do. Like, don't be afraid to just do some insanity. It'll give you an idea of what you can and cannot accomplish in the game and in the world. You'll have an idea of what insane things are possible that perhaps, like, somebody who have been playing for years wouldn't have even thought of it. For any – actually, an example of this—
Jasper: Yes.
Jeremy: —if you – if you want to watch Dimension 20’s Second Season, Escape from the Bloodkeep—
Unati: Hmm.
Jeremy: —in Episode 2, the first combat that they have, Rekha, who had never played D&D before, does some truly insane moves that I don't think most people would have thought to even try.
Jasper: Well, yeah, Matt Mercer is next to her on the table, like, “What?”
Unati: What?
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: It’s Matt Mercer. Like—
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: And it’s – and it's so awesome. Just don't, don't be afraid to try new things and do stuff differently than what you think people might expect.
Jasper: Hmm.
Unati: Hmm.
Jasper: Yeah. Hell yeah. I would say don't – this would be – this is a kind of, like, advice for myself as someone who is way – gets way too invested. Don't take it personally when your really cool character is really – like, does something really shit.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Jasper: Like, it's just fine. Do you know what I mean? I spent my entire first – my entire first experience of playing D&D was making the cool rogue character and just not really having a concept that, like, level three or level one wasn't very strong. And I just spent the entire time whipping and falling out of trees.
Jeremy: It was hysterically funny.
Eric: Incredible.
Jeremy: Very memorable.
Jasper: And I – but I remember really feeling like, “Goddammit, like, why do I suck at D&D?” Like, it was really like – I really wanted to be good at it, you know. And I think that, like, that's the only thing that ever held me back from just, like, letting go and having fun with my friends. It was I was always a bit like, “No, I want to be good. I want to do the good things.” But, like, you will not be able to – physically, you will not be able to wrap your head around the mechanics to make your character maximized at this point. So, just – you know, just start and be, be okay when you fall out of the tree, you know.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Be okay with it.
Unati: Everybody wins D&D.
Jasper: Jasper, I'm talking to you.
Eric: I like be okay with falling out of the tree. That feels like a perfect note to end on.
Jasper: Yes.
Eric: On how Jasper fucking biffed it so many times.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, DM, I rolled a one. What does that mean?
Eric: Oh, it's good. Here, here, let me tell you how good it is.
Jasper: Yeah, you need to go and collect your sword you just threw across the room. Oh, okay.
Eric: There was a bird in that tree and you threw – you threw your sword.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: Yeah, roll me a D4. That's how much damage they take. Aww.
Eric: Wonderful. All right. Well, you're gonna hear more from the Three Black Halflings and me when – I'm gonna run a one shot for them.
Jasper: Yes.
Eric: Set in Lake Town city. I am so excited.
Jeremy: Woo-hoo.
Eric: We're gonna do some superhero stuff in just a little bit and, don't worry, there'll be a link in the episode description for you to go there. Head right there. But, after that, why don't you go – you all plug your stuff and so that people can find you?
Jasper: Yeah, first of all, I want to – I want to shout out Join the Party because I just – I loved – I started listening to this after we'd spoken to Eric and it's so good. Oh, man. I was like – I have been wanting to, like, contact superhero stuff for a long time. But, like, I'm still getting my head around D&D. So, I was, like, I haven't. And then I was listening and I was like, “This is everything that I want and more.” So, just thank you for your work, Eric. I'm really enjoying it.
Eric: Thank you.
Jasper: But, yeah, Three Black Halflings, we can be found @TBHalflings, like, everywhere. Like, on all social media platforms. We have a Patreon, where we have a bunch of exclusive content. So, if you like the sound of Wagadu, you can watch the video versions of all of our sessions that we play. You can also listen to the Wagadu watch, which is like a little After Show Talk that we do. And, yeah, you can find us on all—
Jeremy: The podcast itself.
Jasper: —podcasting platforms. Yeah.
Jeremy: Wherever pods are cast.
Jasper: Wherever they are cast, you can just type in Three Black Halflings and we'll pop up. And then you can just download. And what's kind of nice is, like, because we're a talk show, you can just dive in wherever. Like, pick an episode title that sounds fun and pick that one.
Unati: Yeah.
Jeremy: Mhmm.
Jasper: Like, it's, it's nice and easy, you know.
Eric: My two favorite episodes are, actually, the one that you did with Brennan Lee Mulligan.
Jeremy: Hmm.
Jasper: Yeah.
Eric: That's where I'm just like, “Man, this is a fucking party. Like, I just love listening to these episodes. It’s a goddamn party.”
Jasper: It's, it’s wild. It's wild. It's two hours.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Jasper: Because, the first hour, we interview him and, the second one, he goes, “Let me flip the script around, gang.”
Eric: Yeah.
Jaspers: He starts it back up and starts interviewing us.
Unati: Wooh. Wooh. Wooh.
Jasper: And we were like, “We are not prepared.”
Eric: I’m like, “Brennan, I am interviewing them. Stop interviewing them a year ago, please.” And, also, The, the Candlekeep Controversy episode that you all did, I think that we try to keep abreast again of the whack shit that Wizard of the Coast has done this week. But, I think, that that one, you all particularly tackled that. So, I have such, like, a full understanding of this alongside – I mean I was already keeping my ear to the ground on that. But hearing all of you talk about this – and, also, it's very funny for an episode about a POC gamer getting ruined and, and really upset by a publishing company.
Unati: Yeah, you’re gonna laugh or you’ll cry.
Jasper: I think – I think that’s something that—
Jeremy: Graeme Barber controversy.
Jasper: The Graeme – oh, yeah, the Graeme – yeah, the Graeme Barber. Yeah. I, I think that's something that, like, genuinely, like, I think, A, we've gotten a little better at.
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: Like, just generally being – and, like, finding joy for ourselves in these moments. And, like, I think it's one of the things that I love about the show. It’s just like the fact that we are able to laugh at these things. And I think it just makes it a little bit more accessible. I know that I couldn't just sit around and talk for, like, over an hour about this stuff because I'd just be like – you know, without laughing or smiling or anything. Because I’d just—
Jeremy: True.
Jasper: All right. Now, I want to – I want to throw myself from something high. And—
Eric: Yeah.
Unati: I want to take a nap.
Jasper: —we could use it for a podcast, you know.
Unati: Oh, yeah.
Jasper: So, I think it's like it's more for our own sanity than anything else—
Unati: Yeah.
Jasper: —that we laugh about this shit.
Jeremy: Yep.
Eric; Yeah. But—
Jasper: And, so, I’m glad that it's, it’s – you know, other people like that we laugh about it as well. And people are like, “God, these insensitive assholes.”
Eric: No, the exact opposite, I agree. You definitely need to laugh. And, also, Unati, you were so good at just, like, every so often, just you screaming about something. And I'm like, “I feel the same way.” Unati is just like, “Aah!” and I’m like, “Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, me too.”
Unati: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I need to learn how to like control my ebb of emotions, sometimes. Just like, you know—
Jasper: No, please don't, Unati. They’ll stop listening to the show.
Eric: No. No.
Jeremy: It's part of the brand. It’s part of the brand now.
Jasper: Like, like, it’s really part of the brand. Yeah.
Unati: I kind of like lose my temper every now and then. I have to squeeze my fist really hard and stop from screaming.
Jasper: Yeah. Yeah, exactly, we need that.
Eric: It’s incredible.
Jasper: We need that.
Eric: Listen to the show. And thank you all so much for being here.
Jasper: Thank you for having us on.
Jeremy: Yeah, thank you.
Unati: Thank you.
Transcriptionist: Rachelle Rose Bacharo
Editor: Krizia Casil